Oshkosh 2015

hedwardpruitt

hedwardpruitt

Preflight
Yes, I know it is nearly a year before Oshkosh 2015, but I was wondering if anyone is interested in (or already organized) a mass fly-in from Beech Aero Club? I know the Bonanzas do it and was hoping that we too might have the opportunity to fly-in and camp together.

H Edward Pruitt
 
I'm hoping my new employer see's the benefit of me attending the worlds best GA showcase...If so I'd be happy to ride with someone into the event. I am formation endorsed ( Military standard) , and I'd enjoy "coaching" a fellow BAC member to hold station onto the airfield....It's 12 months away but I am making plans...
 
Now that I'm fully equipped for camping (tent, air mattress, sleeping bag and coffee maker), Oshkosh has a little more appeal to me. I may try to make it next year. I'd be interest in sharing a ride to help reduce the expense. It's 1260 nm from KCHD to KOSH. With the prevailing winds that's about 9 hours and change of flight time to get there and about 10.5 on the return flight. I calculate a conservative total fuel burn of 180 gallons/9gph block burn@ $6/gal = $1080 USD. About the same as a single air fare from KPHX to Madison, WI., where a car would have to be rented/hired. Essentially, you'd get to OSH and back to PHX for ~1/2 the airline price. Camping gear and luggage for a week would limit the Sierra to just two people, three if the other two would be sub-200 pounders and could pack light.
 
One of the questions I have to answer for my aircraft insurance each years is "Do you do any formation flying"? Seems like a mass fly=in is formation flying....or is it? Would participation in a mass fly-in be a problem if my insurance company found out. I guess I could call them. Do any of you know what the deal is?
 
I've never had to answer that type of question on my insurance application form. I've been with Aircraft and Marine Assurance for a long time. Give Norris or Viviane a call. Maybe they can help.
 
I checked on doing a mass fly-in to AirVenture a few years ago and was met with a cool reception. I can check again and see if that's changed. I believe you have to have some sort of training to do a mass fly-in to OSH, but I can check on that, too,

There are a few good airports around here to stage from. KUES (Waukesha, towered), KRYV (Watertown, untowered) are a couple.

Here is an excerpt from the Cessna group mass arrival this year. Note they mention a required clinic and briefing and it looks like FAA approval is also required. It may not be worth it for the number of aircraft we will probably have.

Cessnas to Oshkosh
Arriving 2:30 p.m. Saturday, July 23

Describing AirVenture 2010 "a memorable year, to say the least," Cessnas to Oshkosh (C2Osh) is busy planning for its sixth mass arrival this year - its fourth year in collaboration with the Cessna Pilots Association. Upon arrival from Dodge County Airport (UNU) in Juneau, participants will enjoy a larger "footprint" for Cessna Base Camp 2011, with a bigger tent in the North 40. The annual barbecue dinner takes place on Sunday night, July 24, and breakfast is served daily at the base camp.

As many as 75 aircraft are approved by the FAA for the flight and at last count 57 had registered. This means there's some room for more pilots to participate, so click here for more information. Pilots must complete training in at least one formation clinic and be present at the final briefing on the day of the arrival. There are several formation flight training clinics left before Oshkosh, so click here for dates and locations.

C2Osh is also paying forward the good deed of B2Osh, which provided them with superior information and mentorship in 2006 - C2Osh's first mass arrival. C2Osh is collaborating with the Cherokees to Oshkosh, assisting in their training.
 
My experience with partially trained formation flying has not been great. One of our BACFest 2013 speakers was Kent Ewing, the person responsible for the Bonanza/Baron pilot training program and one of those that trains pilots for the Bonanza formation. I know that if there is interest he would discuss with us appropriate training.
 
mvanover said:
I've never had to answer that type of question on my insurance application form. I've been with Aircraft and Marine Assurance for a long time. Give Norris or Viviane a call. Maybe they can help.
Click to expand...

They're both supposed to be at BACFest 2014. You could ask them then.

I've never had a question like that either. I've also been with Aircraft & Marine for probably 10 years or so.
 
I'm not sure if that would be considered formation or not. Perhaps we could all meet at a airport nearby and just fly in together in sequecnce. That way we could still all camp together. I'll look into it.

HEP
 
Bob,
I understand completely. Perhaps we could just meet at a nearby airport and just sequence together. KDKB is also a great airport. It is only an hour our of Rippen.

HEP
 
Since I drive to OSH, I'm not sure that even if you arrive in sequence that you will end up parking together, since you may be asked to land long or short or on the taxiway. Maybe someone with experience flying to AirVenture can tell us how it works.
 
This year the Bonanza, Cessna and Mooney mass fly-ins were on Saturday, two days prior to the start of Airventure. That may have been the agreed arrangement with the FAA, or was just the preference of the group organizers. I would guess the FAA ATC prefers Saturday; Sunday would be a little too busy to shut down arrivals at RIPON for a group arrival. Basically when the group calls inbound a few minutes out, the tower lets a few more regular inbounds land, then clears the entire group to land. The tower is then silent until the last of the group lands. The mass groups do not follow the RIPON/FISKE route. This allows the entire group to land, taxi and park in one area and setup camp as a group. If a few planes fly in together in sequence they'll get separated by other random aircraft on the Notam arrival, land on two different runways, and once on the ground get directed to different parking areas. Holding up your GAC (general aviation camping) sign could get you parked in a different area than your friend that split off and landed on the other runway.

As Paul and Bob S. mentioned above, there are required sign-offs and waivers involved. I don't know how much preparation time that requires, but I believe the Bonanza/Baron formation practice happens throughout the year, not just one day prior to OSH.

This year my sons and I went two days early just to watch the arrivals. It was most entertaining. By coincidence, we stayed in RFD, Illinois Friday night. On short final we noticed a strange array of lights on the parallel taxiway. Turned out to be 40 Bonanzas and Barons waiting to depart together and practice, still working on endorsements. There were 100 more parked on the ramp. Their arrival at OSH was impressive. They did a flyover and break in groups of 15 or so, then landed in tight groups of 3, two on 36L and one on 36R. The Cessna and Mooney groups started with groups of 3 landing at once, but started to separate and get staggered, just not as sharp.
 
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Thanks for the info on mass arrivals, Bob. I have also watched the Bonanza mass arrival and it is impressive! I did see a near accident when one bounced off 36R (taxiway) and nearly hit the Military Oshkosh trucks parked on the airport. My take is that is won't work for a group of our size. The only possibility I see is flying 'tail-end Charlie' with the Bonanzas, but I'm not really keen on that idea. They did have a Barron or two in the group the year I watched.
 
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