OSH Fisk arrival \"Rock your Wings\" how ?

Aaron.1138

Aaron.1138

Level Cruise
Okay I gotta ask the stupid question here....

How to safely do the "rock your wings" maneuver for the Oshkosh arrival?

If I do large aileron movements it would cause a heading change, most of the time when we use Aileron we are intending to make a heading change (coordinated rudder).

Should this be done like the "dutch roll" / "rolling on a heading" maneuver where you use opposite rudder to keep it on a heading ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_roll#Rolling_on_a_heading
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=derW4-Tly0Y

My thoughts:
This needs to be done while low & slow (90 KIAS).
I realize I have never done this maneuver, and I don't want to accidentally get too much sideslip/skidding, especially while slow.
(Last year I got lucky and got an Instrument Approach into OSH)

I have an IPC with an instructor coming-up next week, guess we will take some time to try this also.
 
Excellent video and that is definitely a good skill to have.. If you have a Flight Simulator with full flight controls, you can practice that way as well... If you crash, just hit the reset button!
 
It'll take about 2 or 3 minutes of your time with your instructor.  At 1,800 and 90 knots you're not exactly low and slow, but definitely something to practice.

Nothing harder than flying behind someone who doesn't know how to keep their plane at 90 knots, especially when you're following them around Green Lake in a 30 minute hold.

Nothing better than having the controller say "great wing rock, welcome to OSH."
 
Sparkie951 said
If you have a Flight Simulator with full flight controls, you can practice that way as well..
Click to expand...

Good ideas, I was just about to start up MSFS so I could practice ground navigation with scenery.
I know MS Flight Simulator catches some criticism for not being as accurate as X-plane 11 physics (I have both), but I’ll say this: if you need to practice anything with ground reference or VFR reference manuevers (like the Fisk arrival Lakes and train tracks) the visual quality of the Microsoft Flight Sim is much better.

I have a VR headset also which really adds to the experience, feel like I’m really there.
 
I too have a VR headset (Oculus Rift S) and the first time I tried MSFS2020 with it was amazing. The immersion that you feel in VR is something you just can't get on a 2d screen. It took me back to the first time I played the VR version of Elite Dangerous.

I do wish the screen resolution of my headset was higher, though. I can still see some pixelation. I've thought about buying a Meta Quest 2 and using PC Link to run PC games like Elite Dangerous, MSFS2020, Skyrim VR, etc. but, with the Quest 3 having been announced, I'll probably wait for that.
 
On mine, I have it setup as close to my plane as possible... Yolk, Rudder Pedals, and the Instrument panel setup as my plane will be when it comes out upto and including the GTN750 and 650. The closer you get your simulator to the real thing the better the simulation. I also understand that someone is working on making a Sierra for MSFS... I will certainly looking into getting that one, but right now, I am using the MSFS Bonanza (Straight Tail)
 
I went up a few weeks and practice a couple of different methods, including the opposite rudder approach that Rap mentioned.  Definitely go try it before going to Osh - it feels really odd, I didn't like it.  I was probably putting in too much opposite rudder, so hopefully I get time to try it again before doing it for real.  
 
Do the actual practice, VR does not have the rudder/aileron innerconnect feedback your mouse will give you. BTW, since you are actually slipping when you rock the wings you will lose altitude, compensate for that too.

Rap
 
Okay I gotta ask the stupid question here....


How to safely do the "rock your wings" maneuver for the Oshkosh arrival?


If I do large aileron movements it would cause a heading change, most of the time when we use Aileron we are intending to make a heading change (coordinated rudder).


Should this be done like the "dutch roll" / "rolling on a heading" maneuver where you use opposite rudder to keep it on a heading ?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_roll#Rolling_on_a_heading

Aaron Mosher said


My thoughts:

This needs to be done while low & slow (90 KIAS).

I realize I have never done this maneuver, and I don't want to accidentally get too much sideslip/skidding, especially while slow.

(Last year I got lucky and got an Instrument Approach into OSH)


  
Click to expand...
 

It really sounds like you are over thinking this.  It is a basically a single rock, left then right, then done.  Nothing that I would even think twice about.  You never rocked your wings for friends on the ground?

What is worth practicing...  flying at and maintaining 90 and maintaining altitude. Last year I was behind an RV7 and he kept fluctuating between 80 and 100knots and altitude variations of 300 feet. Very frustrating as I didnt want to lose sight of him and over run him.  Once you are in line heading in, open the distance up so you have more adjustment space.

While you are practicing maintaining flying at 1800 feet at 90knts, learn to control your airspeed without changing altitude so you cant adjust to the guy in front of you.
 
mdunlevie said
Nothing better than having the controller say "great wing rock, welcome to OSH."


  
Click to expand...
And then nothing worse than rolling out on the runway and hearing, "Nice job Cherokee, welcome to Oshkosh."
 
Okay I did some practice today, rocking wings seems fine no big deal.

What was really eye-opening for me was... how hard it is to maintain 90 Kts and a steady altitude.
best I can do is to use my altitude-hold autopilot to help, then modulate the throttle.
This leads to me running around 18-20 inches of MAP, with a pronounced upward angle of attack to the point that its hard for me to see over the cowling.
Also there is a tendency for the airplane to keep speeding-up even though I'm keeping engine power low.

What I found was that adding ~10 degrees of flaps really helps, it keeps the airplane from going too fast and seems to help the angle of attack to where I can see over the cowling easier.

This is really important for the FISK arrival where you have to visually follow a railroad track, normally when I'm following a road I'll put the road on my left side so I can see it out the window, but they don't want me to do that at OSH I need to be directly over it.

one week to go !
 
Aaron,

You will find it’s easier to control if you add some drag. Give it a bit more flap and, drop the gear. Make the engine work just a little.

 

Practice your slow flight characteristics, but do that at altitude.
 
Aaron Mosher said
Okay I did some practice today, rocking wings seems fine no big deal.


What was really eye-opening for me was... how hard it is to maintain 90 Kts and a steady altitude.

best I can do is to use my altitude-hold autopilot to help, then modulate the throttle.

This leads to me running around 18-20 inches of MAP, with a pronounced upward angle of attack to the point that its hard for me to see over the cowling.

Also there is a tendency for the airplane to keep speeding-up even though I'm keeping engine power low.


What I found was that adding ~10 degrees of flaps really helps, it keeps the airplane from going too fast and seems to help the angle of attack to where I can see over the cowling easier.


This is really important for the FISK arrival where you have to visually follow a railroad track, normally when I'm following a road I'll put the road on my left side so I can see it out the window, but they don't want me to do that at OSH I need to be directly over it.


one week to go !


  
Click to expand...
Thats what i did... 10deg of flaps.

You will follow the guy in front of you which makes following the "required" course variable.
And youll adjust your speed to not over take them or lose sight of them.

The guy i was following last year changed his speed by +/- 20 knots and would change his altitude but a couple hundred feet. It was hard to keep track of him.
 
I have a B24 Sierra also.  To fly 90 knots, lower your gear and use one notch of flaps.  Then, as you say, modulate the throttle.  Many years ago when I was working on my instrument, my instructor taught me this to fly level in the approach.  For each 1 inch of manifold pressure you add or subtract, you will climb or descend 100 feet per minute.  This made it simple which is what I need.
 
Hmm.. interesting thanks for the other inputs.

In my last practice flight , I found that lowering the gear was "too much" drag for level flight at 90 knots. (I think I was still at 10-deg flaps)
I was increasing MAP up to 24" and still only getting up to 85 knots. If i had to speed-up more, I'd have to "work the engine really hard" to get past 90 to catch-up.
Putting the flaps back at Zero, with the Gear down, seems to cause an uncomfortable angle-of-attack and not able to see over the nose.

So I'll run 10-deg with gear up, and my plan is to drop the gear as soon as I get my runway assignment (turn-out from Fisk) so I don't forget.

I do have an Angle-of-attack indicator on my plane (Aspen Pro Max) and its interesting to see the AoA indicator at these speeds.

The real difficulty in this is that in the afternoons, the heating of the sun causes lots of turbulence, I can definitely feel the updrafts and then downdrafts. I call it the "boundary layer" where air heated by the ground is moving and mixing with cooler air in the atmosphere. Great for Gliders, but bumpy for powered airplanes. without an alt-hold autopilot, this causes variations in altitude. With alt-hold, this causes the airplane to pitch down/up (speed up/down) to maintain that altitude against the movement.

Edit to add:
I didn't fly long enough for this to be a factor, but I wonder about engine heating concerns if I flew 90-kts for an extended time, having to run the engine at 24" MAP (gear down) vs 19"MAP (gear up). Especially being so low to the ground where outside air temps are higher, better keep an eye on that oil temp gauge.
 
Aaron Mosher said
Hmm.. interesting thanks for the other inputs.


In my last practice flight , I found that lowering the gear was "too much" drag for level flight at 90 knots. (I think I was still at 10-deg flaps)

I was increasing MAP up to 24" and still only getting up to 85 knots. If i had to speed-up more, I'd have to "work the engine really hard" to get past 90 to catch-up.

Putting the flaps back at Zero, with the Gear down, seems to cause an uncomfortable angle-of-attack and not able to see over the nose.


So I'll run 10-deg with gear up, and my plan is to drop the gear as soon as I get my runway assignment (turn-out from Fisk) so I don't forget.


I do have an Angle-of-attack indicator on my plane (Aspen Pro Max) and its interesting to see the AoA indicator at these speeds.


The real difficulty in this is that in the afternoons, the heating of the sun causes lots of turbulence, I can definitely feel the updrafts and then downdrafts. I call it the "boundary layer" where air heated by the ground is moving and mixing with cooler air in the atmosphere. Great for Gliders, but bumpy for powered airplanes. without an alt-hold autopilot, this causes variations in altitude. With alt-hold, this causes the airplane to pitch down/up (speed up/down) to maintain that altitude against the movement.


Edit to add:

I didn't fly long enough for this to be a factor, but I wonder about engine heating concerns if I flew 90-kts for an extended time, having to run the engine at 24" MAP (gear down) vs 19"MAP (gear up). Especially being so low to the ground where outside air temps are higher, better keep an eye on that oil temp gauge.


  
Click to expand...
While I agree that the gear down just seems like too much drag, you shouldnt over heat running with the gear down.

On a return trip, my gear failed to retract (turned out to be a corroded hydraulic line) and I flew 3 hours home with the gear down... in 100deg temps but was able to climb to about 5500. Never had any overheating of oil or cylinder heads. Just couldnt get much over 105 knts.
 
KOSH Traffic: 
https://flightaware.com/live/airport/KOSH
https://www.flightradar24.com/43.94,-88.68/12

LiveATC is interesting to listen to as it gets busier
https://www.liveatc.net/search/?icao=kosh
 
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