International Region

V

vanhook

Around The Moon
The International Region of BAC was created to give a voice to those members living outside the U.S. who might not have felt connected to one of the original regions.

So far no one has come forward to run for the office of International Regional Director. I would like some feedback from the International Region members as to whether the region should be continued or be dissolved and return those members to their former region.

I intend to conduct a formal poll of the Internation Region members on this subject after the elections to ensure that all have a voice but I would like to here what the Internation Region members have to say about the continued existence of the region.
 
as to whether the region should be continued or be dissolved and return those members to their former region.

Cloyd, what were their original regions?
 
The regions in the original Bylaws were:

SECTION 3 – REGIONS

There shall be seven (7) regions defined as follows:

East Central Region – The East Central Region shall consist of the states of Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio and Wisconsin and the Canadian province of Ontario.

North Central Region – The North Central Region shall consist of the states of Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, and South Dakota and the Canadian provinces of Manitoba and Nunavut.

Northeast Region - The Northeast Region shall consist of the states of Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia, and West Virginia; the District of Columbia; and the Canadian provinces of Quebec, Newfoundland, Labrador, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick and Europe.

Northwest Region – The Northwest Regions shall consist of the states of Alaska, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, Washington and Wyoming; and the Canadian provinces of British Columbia, Alberta, Yukon Territory, Northwest Territories, and Saskatchewan.

South Central Region – The South Central Region shall consist of the states of Arkansas, Louisiana, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Texas; and Mexico, Central America and South America.

Southeast Region – The Southeast Region shall consist of the states of Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina and Tennessee; and Puerto Rico and Africa and all islands of the Atlantic Ocean.

Southwest Region – The Southwest Region shall consist of the states of Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Nevada and Utah; and Australia, Asia and all islands of the Pacific and Indian Oceans.
 
Wow

That means the Southwest Region takes care of about half the world. Awesome!

Seriously, other than Canada, I would imagine that the benefit to membership for most international members are the access to information about maintenance, parts and flying experience. The fly-in aspect would seem minimal.

The advantage to having an international RD would be that they could focus on issues pertinent to the organization that are unique to their experience. I hope that someone steps forward to take the job. If we do wind up folding the areas back in, we will have to be thoughtful of their unique perspective in representing their interests.

I will be interested is seeing how the poll works out.

Dan Jonas
Napa Valley
 
I am not able to take it on, and I can see that the future is in jeopardy. I think Dan has hit it on the head, If it needs to be rolled into other regions that's OK as long as the geographically specific stuff is considered when tossing things around. I think there used to be a line that went something like "All for one and ........ you get the picture.
Mark (in Oz)
 
Hi to All

As a Canadian BAC Member, I wanted to post my thoughts - but I know it's at the risk of sounding like a broken record!! Thank you Cloyd for opening the thread....

I can only speak for myself, I never agreed that the "International" region was acceptable at all - in any way- it immediately seemed to alienate me from my friends across the border only a few miles away. This may sound trival to some - but it was and is not. When I joined as a founding member of BAC we were "All for One" (thank your Mark Weiss for your comment), it was not a single nation organization with a rest of the world tagging along.

I was involved with the region closest to me and likely as most BAC Canadian members are on the US Border as well, they were (I hope) too. I think most would feel closer to the closest region to the south - it was very simple and it worked - we were "ALL for One" this way.

As what happens with the rest of the "International" Members - I think they should be asked what they think as Cloyd has suggested.

I want to make it clear - I am not - and never have bashed anyone over this - yes I have stated the case many times and not been happy with the outcome - but we do have a democratic process and I stay within it.

If anyone has questions or comments please do so!!!

Happy Holidays

Ed Fitchett
C-GBTC
Toronto Canada
 
Ed,

We've never understood each other's position on this.

The thought in creating the International Region was to give a voice to members outside the U.S. that have different issues that should be considered.

As far as being alienated by being in another region, I'm in the SC region but I've been to events in the NE, SE and NC regions. I haven't been thrown out yet.

But everyone is entitled to their own opinion. As I stated before after the elections I'll poll all the members of the International Region to see if the majority wants to continue to be members of an International Region or return to the way things were. We'll go with whatever the majority of the members of the International Region vote.

Cloyd
 
EFitchett said:
I can only speak for myself, I never agreed that the "International" region was acceptable at all - in any way- it immediately seemed to alienate me from my friends across the border only a few miles away.
Click to expand...

Just curious, Ed, in what way did you feel alienated?

I have a difficult time understanding how a loosely defined, recreational organization can create alienation. I understand that you "feel" what you "feel" but I'm in Utah with only one other member (that just recently joined) and I never felt alone or alienated in any way. I belong to the Beech Aero Club not the southwestern region.

I see the regional set up as merely a conduit for information, recreation, socializing, fun competition, etc. not as a barrier to commaraderie or club unity in any way.

Since I do live in the USA perhaps I cannot appreciate exactly what you are experiencing. Please help me understand your feelings of alienation.

Respectfully,
Chris L.
N5106M
KSLC
 
EFitchett said:
I never agreed that the "International" region was acceptable at all - in any way- it immediately seemed to alienate me from my friends across the border only a few miles away.
Click to expand...

Here is a history at how we arrived with the regions set as they are now. When we first setup the regions, before the International region was created, I remember receiving a couple of emails from people who were upset with how the regions were created. (I thought from memory one was Ed, but I stand corrected.)

The feeling from those people was that they were not being recognized. They said they felt alienated and "looked over" because they were "just lumped in with the USA regions". They indicated they felt ignored and not considered important and didn't want to be associated with a region named after a section of the USA.

Thus, we felt as a board we should listen to their input and give them a specific voice. Give them a region which recognizes their location and can be their voice through their own regional director if they feel the club is somehow ignoring them.
 
As I understand it, the regions are only for regional coordination of events. I fail to see how having an International Region would contribute to the feeling of "alienation". I feel that we are all BAC members first and foremost, and a regional affiliation is just another sub identity to help others figure out where we are located. It is like in some states where the college football teams build up loyal fans. In South Carolina we have the USC Gamecocks, and the Clemson Tigers. Most South Carolinians' identify with one or the other, but that doesn't not make them anyless of a South Carolinian or American had they not chosen a football affiliation.

We need to step back and recognize that our international members are just as much a part of this club as the next member. They have special concerns, needs and operate under different rules (aviation speaking) than we do. IF we move them into a specific region as defined within the US, they would lose out , in my honest opinion, a very important voice and affiliation that they now have. IF we dissolve the International region, then why would we not dissovle the current regions and make only three, West Central and East. The logic being applied to the disolution in some form or fashion can be effectively applied to all regions we currently have.

I believe that in the absence of an International member stepping forward to take on this Directorship, then one of us should step forward and represent them on their behalf, even though we may not be geographically within that region.

Again, we are BAC members first and foremost. Regional members secondly. But in reality, we all fly the same type of planes, share the awesome responsibility and distinction of being Pilots over all else.

Cloyd, if the democratic process allows the International region to dissolve, then I will accept it. However, if for no other reason than it has the potential to "alienate" others is the motivating force to dissolve this region, then I believe that a deeper issue is present and must be resolved to address this perception. No disprespect intended ED.

Just my honest opinon.

M. Spencer
 
Only thing I can add here is that I wasn't a (paid) member at the time (period of ~ 6 months..sold my mouse) hence knew nothing about these developments.

Upon re-signing, discovered I was in the International Region & didn't think anything of it, though ended up hearing about some issues..later.
So I'm outa the loop on this one & all ears. Lotta folks have been around long before me.

tflight said:
Here is a history at how we arrived with the regions set as they are now. When we first setup the regions, before the International region was created, I remember receiving a couple of emails from people who were upset with how the regions were created. (I thought from memory one was Ed, but I stand corrected.)

The feeling from those people was that they were not being recognized. They said they felt alienated and "looked over" because they were "just lumped in with the USA regions". They indicated they felt ignored and not considered important and didn't want to be associated with a region named after a section of the USA.

Thus, we felt as a board we should listen to their input and give them a specific voice. Give them a region which recognizes their location and can be their voice through their own regional director if they feel the club is somehow ignoring them.
Click to expand...
 
First - I won't take anyones comments on this no matter what side of the fence you as disrespectful. Cloyd is correct - we have not seen eye to eye on this but if the question is asked, at least of me (an International Member) what I want - I have laid it out. If this is unaceptable to the rest of the majority who are not International Members - so be it - but why bother to keep asking the question if the same answer you keep getting is simply not acceptable....

On the question of feeling alienated - and no disrespect to my many US friends, relatives and fellow flyers - when I joined BAC it was not a US based type club, it was of the world and was truely "All for One" but if this is what the majority want then as stated before - it's a democracy - and I accept the decisions made or I have the choice to leave.

I wish to close saying that no one can seem to tell me who it was that complained about the way it was set up before nor can explain how my needs are best represented by for example by Tony Crowe, 4000 miles away in England (No offence again Tony, many apologies and I owe you a beer!!!) when I live a few miles away from Buffalo?

Ed Fitchett
C-GBTC
Toronto - Canada
 
This is clearly an 'eye of the beholder' issue. I feel confident that no one set out to hurt anyone's feelings, or to create a sense of divide between the USA members and all other members. A small number of people put in a lot of time and effort to get BAC off the ground, and it was defined as an International organization from the very beginning. It is, and most certainly will remain, an International organization. I can personally state with confidence that I have provided every bit as much support for members outside the USA, as within the States; and off-shore shipping is often more difficult to deal with. I do everything I can to provide support and keep costs low (parts and shipping).

Since we have further matured as an organization, I see the same Forum participation and BAC contributions from USA and non-USA members alike. As one example, Tony Crowe in Great Britain made the jack adapter plates that many of you purchased earlier this year, and plans to make another batch soon. Everyone can contribute to all, no matter where you are (or what the name of your Region happens to be).

I have received many, many complimentary notes on the value of BAC, particularly relative to its cost versus value. Today I received my very first complaint on a parts issue (from a USA member), which I will get resolved to his satisfaction. As an organization, we aren't trying to 'sweep anything under the rug', nor ignore anyone. That does not mean that everything will always go the way some person prefers (including me). I live with adverse decisions in my private life, and I will certainly live with them in BAC, for the greater good.

It looks like Cloyd will be floating a poll soon, for the International members to express their preference on Region alignment. If no one is willing to step up to the plate as the Regional Director for International, it may become a moot point! As evidenced by the relative lack of volunteer nominees for the various Club offices, it is always hard to find people willing to take on more responsibility for a volunteer function in an outfit like BAC.
 
EFitchett said:
explain how my needs are best represented by for example by Tony Crowe, 4000 miles away in England
Click to expand...

I think that is our point too.... If we were to create regions based purely on geographic location then we would need a region for Hawaii with one member since that is a few thousand miles away from the US mainland. We would need a region for western Europe with two members. We would need one region for South Africa with one member. We would need a region for Australia with four members, etc.

That would create too many regions. We could consolidate some of the US regions but we would wind up with about four or five regions with one or two members in them and then another region with several hundred regions in them.
 
Regions

I can understand why the current Canadian international members located close to the northern regions might prefer to be within those regions. It will be interesting to see what the international members have to say when the poll is made. I'm not sure what the solution might be and I'm sure that we might not reach a conclusion that solves all issues.

The original Southwest Region included Hawaii, Australia, heck even Madgascar if I read it correctly. While I would do anything I could to help a member within those further reaches of the region, I'm sure that their participation in a Southwest Fly-in would be unlikely, as is the chance that we will eventually meet. It is equally unlikely that many US southwest or Hawaii members would be able to join in an Australian Fly-in if they decided to have one. That said, I would encourage them to try to meet and enjoy each others company. I would also make any extrordinary efforts I could to meet them if they visited here or I there.

I've received a lot of help and comraderie from this group. I recognize that the lines need to be drawn to balance the populations within each region and to also consider flying distances for events. Finding that balance is the art of the process. BAC Fest was just a little to far for me this summer, and next year on the east coast may or may not work based on schedules, how fast the annual gets done, etc. It is good that we have a Southwest Region that while still quite large geographically, does allow many to get together periodically. Even then, our distances make single day events difficult.

Dan Jonas
Napa Valley
 
Ed, thanks very much both for stepping up to the plate for a Director's role, and for posting that here.
 
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