Cruise RPM Setting
- Thread starter sr30sb
- Start date
mdunlevie
Around The Moon
This was one of many I didn't follow, this one is Wide Open Throttle.
Here's my cheat sheet list:
[h=2]List of Abbreviations[/h]
Here's my cheat sheet list:
[h=2]List of Abbreviations[/h]
AAMOF - As A Matter Of Fact
AFAICT - As Far As I Can tell
AFAIK - As Far As I Know
AFK - Away From Keyboard
AMU - Aircraft Monetary Unit - $1000.00
AOG - Airman (or Aircraft) on Ground (usually indicates a broken airplane)
ASAP - As Soon As Possible
BBL - Be Back Later
BRB - Be Right Back
BLTN - Better Late Than Never
BSFC - Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (ratio of power per unit fuel consumption)
BTDT - Been There, Done That
BTW - By The Way
BWTFDIK - But What the F*** Do I Know
BWTHDIK - But What the Hades Do I Know
CHT - Cylinder Head Temperature
CMI - Continental Motors Incorporated
CMS - Amnesia - Can't 'member Sh**
CRS - Amnesia - Can't Remember Sh**
CSOB - Cheap Son of a Beech
CU - See You
EGT - Exhaust Gas Temperature
EZ - Easy
F2F - Face to Face
FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions
FF - Fuel Flow
FF - Firewall Forward (as in overhauling everything FF)
FIFY - Fixed It For You
FWIW - For What It’s Worth
FYI - For Your Information
GAMI - General Aviation Manufacturers Inc
GG - Good Game
GOP - Green Of Peak
GS - Ground Speed
GTG - Got To Go
HAND - Have A Nice Day
HTH - Hope That Helps
IAC - In Any Case
ICP - Internal Combustion Pressure
IDK - I Don't Know
IIRC - If I Recall Correctly
IMHO - In My Humble Opinion
IMNSHO - In My Not-So-Humble Opinion
IMO - In My Opinion
IOW - In Other Words
IRAN - Inspect, Repair As Necessary (e.g. an ignition magneto or prop)
IRL - In Real Life
J/K - Just Kidding
LOL - Laughing Out Loud
LOP - Lean of Peak EGT
MFD - Multifunction Display
MP - Manifold Pressure
NA - Normally Aspirated (no turbo)
NRN - No Reply Necessary
NSFW = Not Suitable For Work
OMG - Oh My God
OTOH - On The Other Hand
PFD - Primary Flight Display?
PM - Private Message
POH - Pilot Operating Handbook
POS - Piece Of Sh**
PRISM - Pressure Reactive Intelligent Spark Management
PS - Prop Strike
PT - Piper Tail
R&D - Research and Development
R&R - Removal + Replacement
RMOAS - Reminds Me Of A Story
ROFL - Rolling On the Floor Laughing
ROFLMAO - Rolling On the Floor Laughing My A** Off
ROP - Rich of Peak EGT
RTFM - Read the Fabulous Manual
SFRM - Since Factory Re-Manufacture
SMOH - Since Major OverHaul (in engine hours)
SOP - Standard Operating Procedure
STOH - Since Top-end OverHaul
SWAG - Scientific Wild A__ Guess
SWMBO - Single White Male Bonanza Owner.
SWMBO- She Who Must Be Obeyed (wife, etc)
TA - Turbo Assisted
TAS - True Air Speed
TAT - Tornado Alley Turbo
TCM - Teledyne Continental Motors
THX - Thanks
TIA - Thanks In Advance
TIT - Turbo Inlet Temperature
TN - Turbo Normalized (sea level / low altitude intake pressure maintained by turbo)
TMOH - Time Since Major Overhaul
TSMOH - Time Since Major Overhaul
TSFRM - Time Since Factory Reman
TPOH - Time Since Prop Overhaul
TTAF - Total Time on the AirFrame
TTIWWP - This Thread Is Worthless Without Pictures
TTOH - Time Since Top Overhaul
TTSN - Total Time Since New
TTYL8R - Talk To You Later
TU - T*ts up (Dead)
TWSS - That's What She Said
WAG - Wild A__ Guess
WAFDOF - Wrong Altitude For Direction of Flight
WDYT - What Do You Think
WOT - Wide Open Throttle
WTF - What The F***
WTF - Women Take Flight
[FONT=Roboto, sans-serif]YMMV - Your [/FONT][FONT=Roboto, sans-serif]Millage[/FONT][FONT=Roboto, sans-serif] May Vary[/FONT]
AFAICT - As Far As I Can tell
AFAIK - As Far As I Know
AFK - Away From Keyboard
AMU - Aircraft Monetary Unit - $1000.00
AOG - Airman (or Aircraft) on Ground (usually indicates a broken airplane)
ASAP - As Soon As Possible
BBL - Be Back Later
BRB - Be Right Back
BLTN - Better Late Than Never
BSFC - Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (ratio of power per unit fuel consumption)
BTDT - Been There, Done That
BTW - By The Way
BWTFDIK - But What the F*** Do I Know
BWTHDIK - But What the Hades Do I Know
CHT - Cylinder Head Temperature
CMI - Continental Motors Incorporated
CMS - Amnesia - Can't 'member Sh**
CRS - Amnesia - Can't Remember Sh**
CSOB - Cheap Son of a Beech
CU - See You
EGT - Exhaust Gas Temperature
EZ - Easy
F2F - Face to Face
FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions
FF - Fuel Flow
FF - Firewall Forward (as in overhauling everything FF)
FIFY - Fixed It For You
FWIW - For What It’s Worth
FYI - For Your Information
GAMI - General Aviation Manufacturers Inc
GG - Good Game
GOP - Green Of Peak
GS - Ground Speed
GTG - Got To Go
HAND - Have A Nice Day
HTH - Hope That Helps
IAC - In Any Case
ICP - Internal Combustion Pressure
IDK - I Don't Know
IIRC - If I Recall Correctly
IMHO - In My Humble Opinion
IMNSHO - In My Not-So-Humble Opinion
IMO - In My Opinion
IOW - In Other Words
IRAN - Inspect, Repair As Necessary (e.g. an ignition magneto or prop)
IRL - In Real Life
J/K - Just Kidding
LOL - Laughing Out Loud
LOP - Lean of Peak EGT
MFD - Multifunction Display
MP - Manifold Pressure
NA - Normally Aspirated (no turbo)
NRN - No Reply Necessary
NSFW = Not Suitable For Work
OMG - Oh My God
OTOH - On The Other Hand
PFD - Primary Flight Display?
PM - Private Message
POH - Pilot Operating Handbook
POS - Piece Of Sh**
PRISM - Pressure Reactive Intelligent Spark Management
PS - Prop Strike
PT - Piper Tail
R&D - Research and Development
R&R - Removal + Replacement
RMOAS - Reminds Me Of A Story
ROFL - Rolling On the Floor Laughing
ROFLMAO - Rolling On the Floor Laughing My A** Off
ROP - Rich of Peak EGT
RTFM - Read the Fabulous Manual
SFRM - Since Factory Re-Manufacture
SMOH - Since Major OverHaul (in engine hours)
SOP - Standard Operating Procedure
STOH - Since Top-end OverHaul
SWAG - Scientific Wild A__ Guess
SWMBO - Single White Male Bonanza Owner.
SWMBO- She Who Must Be Obeyed (wife, etc)
TA - Turbo Assisted
TAS - True Air Speed
TAT - Tornado Alley Turbo
TCM - Teledyne Continental Motors
THX - Thanks
TIA - Thanks In Advance
TIT - Turbo Inlet Temperature
TN - Turbo Normalized (sea level / low altitude intake pressure maintained by turbo)
TMOH - Time Since Major Overhaul
TSMOH - Time Since Major Overhaul
TSFRM - Time Since Factory Reman
TPOH - Time Since Prop Overhaul
TTAF - Total Time on the AirFrame
TTIWWP - This Thread Is Worthless Without Pictures
TTOH - Time Since Top Overhaul
TTSN - Total Time Since New
TTYL8R - Talk To You Later
TU - T*ts up (Dead)
TWSS - That's What She Said
WAG - Wild A__ Guess
WAFDOF - Wrong Altitude For Direction of Flight
WDYT - What Do You Think
WOT - Wide Open Throttle
WTF - What The F***
WTF - Women Take Flight
[FONT=Roboto, sans-serif]YMMV - Your [/FONT][FONT=Roboto, sans-serif]Millage[/FONT][FONT=Roboto, sans-serif] May Vary[/FONT]
sr30sb
Climbing to Cruise
N6008L
Around The Moon
I read these threads and they have me wondering....
I highest I've ever had my SD was 11k. That was lightly loaded, and with just me. Most of the time, I struggle to get to 5 or 6k. If I have a passenger in the front seat, I'm hanging on to the prop to make it to 5k.
The engine has excellent compression, and makes 2350 static. I haven't done anything to the prop, and I don't think the previous owner did either.
I've tried leaning. I took a long trip with an old timer A&P and instructor, and he didn't make much of an improvement.
I've tried little things to move the CG a bit after, such as a fly weight starter.
I wonder what's wrong?
I put a deposit down on a Power Flow. But the static run up test didn't show any increase in RPM, which they said meant there wasn't extra fuel that the Power Flow could turn into horsepower. Maybe I will reconsider that, but I didn't buy the PF exhaust.
I have a set of VGs, but I am waiting until paint to apply them.
I have a tail weight on order, but I'm waiting for the annual before I have it installed.
My home airport is at 20' MSL. I really wonder what I'd do out West.
I highest I've ever had my SD was 11k. That was lightly loaded, and with just me. Most of the time, I struggle to get to 5 or 6k. If I have a passenger in the front seat, I'm hanging on to the prop to make it to 5k.
The engine has excellent compression, and makes 2350 static. I haven't done anything to the prop, and I don't think the previous owner did either.
I've tried leaning. I took a long trip with an old timer A&P and instructor, and he didn't make much of an improvement.
I've tried little things to move the CG a bit after, such as a fly weight starter.
I wonder what's wrong?
I put a deposit down on a Power Flow. But the static run up test didn't show any increase in RPM, which they said meant there wasn't extra fuel that the Power Flow could turn into horsepower. Maybe I will reconsider that, but I didn't buy the PF exhaust.
I have a set of VGs, but I am waiting until paint to apply them.
I have a tail weight on order, but I'm waiting for the annual before I have it installed.
My home airport is at 20' MSL. I really wonder what I'd do out West.
trumpet nelson
Around The Moon
Les,
All I can offer is another data point for you. Your post makes me ponder about your prop efficiency and airframe efficiency, but that is just the Engineer in me talking. My performance before and after the engine O/H is still about the same. Typically getting to 6500 is a slam-dunk for the airplane here in south Texas. No issues. Here is my most recent flight into the mountains:
- when I departed Dumas,Texas I was approximately 119 lbs under max gross in my 1976 Sundowner, just a tad rear of mid-cg on the chart.. I leaned for take-off since the DA was worth noting. My EGT readouts are extremely valuable for this phase of flight.
- it took about 25 minutes to climb from 8,500 to 10,500 after I was about 1 hour into the trip
- about 2 hours into the trip, it took about 25 minutes to climb to 13,000
- turns out the aircraft was experiencing about 2,000 ft more than indicated in DA during the last portion of the 2hr 45 minute trip. The destination field was reporting a DA of 9,600 and actual field elevation is about 7,500
- 13,000 on the clock was attainable, but she didn't have much more to give. Like Michael Dun. has stated ... "like flying on the head of a pin"
- my static rpm at sea level is about 2350, same as yours. Increases to 2400 during the takeoff roll as a final check.
- when I go from full rich to lean-for-best-power at higher altitudes, I typically get about one needle width improvement on the tach. The small pointy end of the needle, not the fat base of the needle. Even that small increment (more felt & heard than seen) helps the climb remarkably.
Best of luck to you.
All I can offer is another data point for you. Your post makes me ponder about your prop efficiency and airframe efficiency, but that is just the Engineer in me talking. My performance before and after the engine O/H is still about the same. Typically getting to 6500 is a slam-dunk for the airplane here in south Texas. No issues. Here is my most recent flight into the mountains:
- when I departed Dumas,Texas I was approximately 119 lbs under max gross in my 1976 Sundowner, just a tad rear of mid-cg on the chart.. I leaned for take-off since the DA was worth noting. My EGT readouts are extremely valuable for this phase of flight.
- it took about 25 minutes to climb from 8,500 to 10,500 after I was about 1 hour into the trip
- about 2 hours into the trip, it took about 25 minutes to climb to 13,000
- turns out the aircraft was experiencing about 2,000 ft more than indicated in DA during the last portion of the 2hr 45 minute trip. The destination field was reporting a DA of 9,600 and actual field elevation is about 7,500
- 13,000 on the clock was attainable, but she didn't have much more to give. Like Michael Dun. has stated ... "like flying on the head of a pin"
- my static rpm at sea level is about 2350, same as yours. Increases to 2400 during the takeoff roll as a final check.
- when I go from full rich to lean-for-best-power at higher altitudes, I typically get about one needle width improvement on the tach. The small pointy end of the needle, not the fat base of the needle. Even that small increment (more felt & heard than seen) helps the climb remarkably.
Best of luck to you.
trumpet nelson
Around The Moon
Another piece of the puzzle ..... perhaps ..... (as alluded to by Rap): I keep the indicated airspeed above 100 mph when climbing. Typically about 105 mph for a climb in the mountains. My Sundowner wing gets "happy" at sea level at about 92 mph. You can really feel the lift-over-drag ratio change when she transitions at that speed. Feels more like a piece of plywood when you get below 85 mph. 
N6008L
Around The Moon
I have to check. I hadn't considered a leaking carb heat box, but I think you're on to something there. It has been years since I did the Power Flo check, but I am now wondering whether the CH box was leaking then, too, perhaps giving me a false negative result.
What is the best way to check the CHB? I have a good A&P, but I like to know enough to ask him decent questions.
Les,
The Powerflow added 50-60 RPM for me at cruise on a Sundowner. (I have a digital tach, so measurement of the before and after was easy.) You would have to decide if that's enough of a power gain to be worth the price.
I should further add, that during the summer months, 10,500 is the max I plan for on a hot (~100 F) day, due to DA considerations. I have made 13,500 during the winter months though, with just myself onboard. And that was before the Powerflow was installed.
I'm a little puzzled when you say the plane struggles to reach 5k to 6k. That should be easy to attain under any legal loading.
I'll let the brain trust here throw out some more suggestions for you. Not an A & P, but I have been flying Sundowners for over 20 years.
The Powerflow added 50-60 RPM for me at cruise on a Sundowner. (I have a digital tach, so measurement of the before and after was easy.) You would have to decide if that's enough of a power gain to be worth the price.
I should further add, that during the summer months, 10,500 is the max I plan for on a hot (~100 F) day, due to DA considerations. I have made 13,500 during the winter months though, with just myself onboard. And that was before the Powerflow was installed.
I'm a little puzzled when you say the plane struggles to reach 5k to 6k. That should be easy to attain under any legal loading.
I'll let the brain trust here throw out some more suggestions for you. Not an A & P, but I have been flying Sundowners for over 20 years.
Carb air box check is easy. Remove cowl, remove heat side scat tube. With carb heat OFF the valve should be closed tight. Like this....
Also check for movement/slop in the pivot point for the flapper valve.
PS: I have a recently OH'd carb air box for the late model SDs.
Rap
Attachments
N6008L
Around The Moon
What sort of ROC, speed and RPM are you seeing at 5k?
markweiss
Headed to Andromeda
Les,
Something is not right with that. You need to do some basic troubleshooting to establish where the problem is.
First, fly (solo) @ 5k, WOT, and record the RPM after a few minutes of level flight.
Next, load 200# (not a misprint) of ballast as far aft as you can get (within the cabin), and repeat the same flight test, on the same day.
Start a new thread with the results so we can walk you through the process of elimination.
Les,
Usual load for me is two people and 40 gal. After takeoff at my home airport (4K), I usually see 500 fpm climb, at about 82 kts. I seldom do a best ROC climb to keep cylinder temps lower. Initial Climb RPM is typically 2450. After crossing 5k, I lean for best power. That typically adds 20-30 RPM for climb.
Usual load for me is two people and 40 gal. After takeoff at my home airport (4K), I usually see 500 fpm climb, at about 82 kts. I seldom do a best ROC climb to keep cylinder temps lower. Initial Climb RPM is typically 2450. After crossing 5k, I lean for best power. That typically adds 20-30 RPM for climb.
N6008L
Around The Moon
Mark, will do. I'm down for maintenance for a week or two, but then I'll get after it.
I think the issue may in part be W&B. I usually wind up with 425# in the front seats. I have taken to adding 50# in the baggage, but it may not be enough.
Col Mike
Climbing to Cruise
In my case with 2161W it took a month of Sunday’s it seemed between getting good weather to do the PFlo testing in ground and in air and getting the engine right to include getting the correct jets back in the carb and other items. Mechanic said he got 100RPM diff on the ground even.). BTW, I have none of the bills yet![emoji52]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
rgschmi
Around The Moon
I used to have same problem climbing in our Sundowner. She started to struggle at 5 or 6 thousand feet. I'm not sure how much each thing we did helped, but we were still climbing near 500 fpm at 7500ft a week ago. I know rigging helped a lot, both in cruise speed and climb. We also added the tail weight, which helped. I may be wrong, but I think changing our carb showed the most improvement, though I don't know why. We had the HA-6 A10-5045 carb with the plunger for mixture control. With carb troubles too long to go into here, Aircraft Spruce gave us full core value on a factory overhauled carb that replaces the 5045 (the 5045 is no longer overhauled by the factory). Things got much better with the new carb. I suppose it's possible that we did a better job of adjusting the carb heat box or cleaned up a leak somewhere, but in any case, we were more than happy to get rid of that old carb.
rgschmi
Around The Moon
We have an A4J, and replaced the 10-5045 with a 10-5219. The 5045 won't be listed anywhere as it is obsolete. There was a special appendix in the repair manual for that model only (too bad the place that 'repaired' it didn't know that).
N6008L
Around The Moon
It looks like the only difference between the A4J and A4K are the magnetos.
This is what I found on the Textron sites:
Part Name Assembly - Carburetor
Part Number AV10-5219
PMA Number Textron Lycoming Part No. LW-15957, Volare Carburetor Part No. 10-5219
Approval Basis Test & Computations per 14 CFR § 21.303 (c). AVStar Aircraft Accessories AAA2008-024, new release dated 07/11/08 or later FAA approved revision
More Models Textron Lycoming (LO-360-A1HD, A1N6, E1A6D, O-360-A1G, A1G6, A1H, A1HD, A1N6, A2G, A4G, A4J, A4JD, A4K, O-320-H1CD)
Company Name AVStar Fuel Systems Inc
Company Number PQ4021CE
Company Address 1365 Park Lane South, Jupiter, FL, 33458, United States
http://www.pmaaircraft.com/models/textron_lycoming_o_360_a4k.html
Which seems to cross to Spruce:
HA-6 LW-15957 10-5219 08-06394
It looks like the 5219 applies to most of the 0-360 AXX engines.
This is what I found on the Textron sites:
Part Name Assembly - Carburetor
Part Number AV10-5219
PMA Number Textron Lycoming Part No. LW-15957, Volare Carburetor Part No. 10-5219
Approval Basis Test & Computations per 14 CFR § 21.303 (c). AVStar Aircraft Accessories AAA2008-024, new release dated 07/11/08 or later FAA approved revision
More Models Textron Lycoming (LO-360-A1HD, A1N6, E1A6D, O-360-A1G, A1G6, A1H, A1HD, A1N6, A2G, A4G, A4J, A4JD, A4K, O-320-H1CD)
Company Name AVStar Fuel Systems Inc
Company Number PQ4021CE
Company Address 1365 Park Lane South, Jupiter, FL, 33458, United States
http://www.pmaaircraft.com/models/textron_lycoming_o_360_a4k.html
Which seems to cross to Spruce:
HA-6 LW-15957 10-5219 08-06394
It looks like the 5219 applies to most of the 0-360 AXX engines.
